A Fanatic for all Seasons

Thomas More

The play A Man for All Seasons,1 is a most interesting play in that it is of a man who never existed. That man is of course Thomas More. The More in the play is to be polite a lie and fabrication. The heavy handed play and its lugubrious and highly painfully earnest film version are parts of the lie that is the popular mythology about Thomas More that flourishes to this day.

Thomas More was born on February 7, 1478.2 Thomas More studied at the various Inns of Court and became a Lawyer. Thomas More wanted to be a Priest or Monk but decided reluctantly to get married to a woman named Jane Colt. When Jane Colt died in 1511, Thomas More almost immediately married a rich widow by the name of Alice Middleton who survived him. He served as advisor to the great Cardinal Wolsey and made friends with the great Humanist, Renaissance scholar Erasmus with whom he had a life long friendship.3

Of course Thomas More wrote Utopia, 4, (meaning no place), which was published in 1516. Much as been made of the religious tolerance of the Utopians. For example:

…for this is one of their most ancient laws, that no man ought to be punished for his religion. At the first constitution of their government, Utopus having understood that before his coming among them the old inhabitants had been engaged in great quarrels concerning religion, by which they were so divided among themselves, that he found it an easy thing to conquer them, since instead of uniting their forces against him, every different party in religion fought by themselves; after he had subdued them, he made a law that every man might be of what religion he pleased, and might endeavor to draw others to it by force of argument, and by amicable and modest ways, but without bitterness against those of other opinions; but that he ought to use no other force but that of persuasion, and was neither to mix with it reproaches nor violence; and such as did otherwise were to be condemned to banishment or slavery.

This law was made by Utopus, not only for preserving the public peace, which he saw suffered much by daily contentions and irreconcilable heats, but because he thought the interest of religion itself required it. He judged it not fit to determine anything rashly, and seemed to doubt whether those different forms of religion might not all come from God, who might inspire men in a different manner, and be pleased with this variety; he therefore thought it indecent and foolish for any man to threaten and terrify another to make him believe what did not appear to him to be true. And supposing that only one religion was really true, and the rest false, he imagined that the native force of truth would at last break forth and shine bright, if supported only by the strength of argument, and attended to with a gentle and unprejudiced mind; while, on the other hand, if such debates were carried on with violence and tumults, as the most wicked are always the most obstinate, so the best and most holy religion might be choked with superstition, as corn is with briars and thorns.

He therefore left men wholly to their liberty, that they might be free to believe as they should see cause;…5

This passage and several others have been used as evidence that Thomas more was a tolerant man however it ignores that the Utopians were not tolerant of atheists:

…only he [Utopus] made a solemn and severe law against such as should so far degenerate from the dignity of human nature as to think that our souls died with our bodies, or that the world was governed by chance, without a wise overruling Providence: for they all formerly believed that there was a state of rewards and punishments to the good and bad after this life; and they now look on those that think otherwise as scarce fit to be counted men, since they degrade so noble a being as the soul, and reckon it no better than a beast's: thus they are far from looking on such men as fit for human society, or to be citizens of a well-ordered commonwealth; since a man of such principles must needs, as oft as he dares do it, despise all their laws and customs: for there is no doubt to be made that a man who is afraid of nothing but the law, and apprehends nothing after death, will not scruple to break through all the laws of his country, either by fraud or force, when by this means he may satisfy his appetites. They never raise any that hold these maxims, either to honors or offices, nor employ them in any public trust, but despise them, as men of base and sordid minds: yet they do not punish them, because they lay this down as a maxim that a man cannot make himself believe anything he pleases; nor do they drive any to dissemble their thoughts by threatenings, so that men are not tempted to lie or disguise their opinions; which being a sort of fraud, is abhorred by the Utopians. They take care indeed to prevent their disputing in defence of these opinions, especially before the common people; but they suffer, and even encourage them to dispute concerning them in private with their priests and other grave men, being confident that they will be cured of those mad opinions by having reason laid before them.6

Further it is clear from Thomas More’s comments that one of the signs of the Utopians superiority is that they are eager to listen too and be converted to Christianity. Further since the Utopians are non-Christians they would have to be religiously tolerant to be able to more easily receive Christianity.7

There is no question that Thomas More believed utterly and completely in the absolute truth of the Catholic version of Christianity

Perhaps the best indication of the “true” Thomas More is in his myriad writings about heresy.

We have for example the fate of James Bainham. Thomas More while Lord Chancellor of England was involved in his arrest, questioning and imprisonment. James Bainham was charged with heresy and had after his first arrest been given the choice of being burned or recanting. James Bainham had not surprisingly recanted. After all who wants to die? Afterwards, filled with guilt, James Bainham recanted his recantation and soon afterwards was arrested again. As a relapsed heretic he was shortly afterwards burned. Foxe in his Book of Martyrs, claimed that Thomas More, who had been involved in questioning James Bainham, had him tortured and whipped. These claims are doubted today yet Thomas More wrote about the death of Bainham and other “heretics”:

And for heretics as they be, the clergy both denounce them. And they be well worthy, the temporalty doth burn them. After the fire of Smithfield, hell doth receive them where the wretches burn forever.8

Another example of Thomas More’s victims was Thomas Hitton a priest who was sympathetic to various aspects of Protestantism. Thomas More writes that Thomas Hitton was:

…an apostle, sent to and fro betwene our Englysshe heretykes beyonde the see and such as were here at home. The spirit of errour and lyenge hath taken his wretched soul with him strayte from the shorte fyre to ye fyre ever lastyng. And this is lo sir Thomas Hitton, the dyuyls [devil's] stynkyng martyr, of whose burnynge Tyndale maketh boste.9

When a man named John Twekesbury was burned Thomas More stated:

burned as there was never wretche I wene better worthy.10

While he was Lord Chancellor Thomas More violated rules of English law to get at heretics and he continued to rejoice until his own death in the destruction of heretics.11 He carried out until his death a vicious vendetta against William Tyndale the translator of the New Testament into English. Thomas More described William Tyndale as:

beste oute of whose brutyshe bestely mouth cometh a fylthy fome.12

Eventually Thomas More played a role, even though Thomas More was in the tower at the time awaiting his own execution in William Tyndale’s horrible death by fire.13.

The Execution of William Tyndale

Thus does Thomas More crow in hateful joy at the hideous death of other human beings judicially murdered for their opinions.

Thomas More in 1529 published a book called A Dialogue Concerning Heresies,14 In it we find such good words as:

The Author showeth his opinion concerning the burning of Heretics and that it is lawful, necessary, and well done.15

In A Dialogue concerning Heresies, we get such bon mots as this concerning Martin Luther.

…a fond friar, to an apostate, to an open incestuous lecher, a plain limb of the devil, and a manifest messenger of hell.16

For in More’s eyes regarding heresy:

there is no fault that more offendeth God.17

Finally Thomas More wrote in a letter to Erasmus as follows:

...with deep feeling. I find that breed of men [heretics] absolutely loathsome, so much so that, unless they regain their senses, I want to be as hateful to them as anyone can possibly be for my increasing experience with these men frightens me with the thought that the whole world will suffer at their hands.18

Richard Marius says this about Thomas More and his campaign against heresy:

To stand before a man at an inquisition, knowing that he will rejoice when we die, knowing that he will commit us to the stake and its horrors without a moment’s hesitation or remorse if we do not satisfy him, is not an experience much less cruel because our inquisitor does not whip us or rack us or shout at us.

...

But in the same work, [More’s, Apology, 1533] More - by then out of office – exhorted the bishops not to falter in their zeal to suppress heretics by any measures at their command.

His own labour was utterly single-minded and not mitigated by any flash of mercy or tolerance. Heretics were enemies of God, servants of Satan, minions of hell, and beyond all that, they were usually lower-class, people without roots resolved to root out the grand old faith which was the only guarantee of meaning in the universe. More believed that they should be exterminated, and while he was in office he did everything in his power to bring that extermination to pass. That he did not succeed in becoming England’s Torquemada was a consequence of the king’s quarrel with the pope and not a result of any quality of mercy that stirred through More’s own heart.19

Thomas More as a man of tolerance is a myth. The tolerance in his ideal society described in Utopia is a function of the fact that the Utopians are non Christians that More wants to become Christians so of course they are tolerant,; but not of atheism which More abominated. The tolerance of the Utopians tells us zero about More’s own attitudes in this matter. Instead his large corpus of written writings is full of hatred against so-called heretics and zealous in calls for their violent suppression by terror and painful death right to the end of More’s life. All this makes an interesting contrast with More’s friend Erasmus whose tolerance and dislike of violence make it manifest that he would almost certainly have never have overseen the judicial murder of individuals for so-called heresy.

It is ironic that Thomas More who believed it was right to murder men, and had in fact done so, for their opinions was murdered for his own.20

1. Bolt, Robert, A Man for all Seasons, Vintage, New York, 1990, see the following critique, O'Connell, Marvin, A Man for all Seasons: an Historian's Demur, at Here

2. Marius, Richard, Thomas More, Fount Paperbacks, New York, 1984, p. 3.

3. IBID. pp.14-83.

4. A copy of Utopia can be found at the Oregon State website Here.

5. IBID. Utopia, in Book II: Of the Religions Of the Utopians, at Here

6. IBID.

7. IBID. also Marius, pp. 152-183.

8. IBID. Marius quoting Thomas More p. 406.

9. Moynahan, Brian, Thomas More: Zero Tolerance, Part II, at Here, quoting Thomas More.

10. IBID.

11. IBID.

12. IBID. and Moynahan, Brian, Thomas More: Zero Tolerance, Part I, at Here

13. IBID.

14. See More, Thomas, The Complete Works of St. Thomas More; volume 6: A Dialogue Concerning Heresies, ed. Louis A. Schuster, Richard C. Marius, James P. Lusardi and Richard J. Shoeck, Yale University Press, New Haven CT., 1973.

15. Quoted in Marius, p. 347.

16. See More, Dialogue..., p. 346.

17. IBID. p. 407.

18. More, Thomas, St. Thomas More: Selected Letters, ed. by Elizabeth Frances Rogers. Yale University Press, New Haven CT., 1961, pp.180.

19. Marius, p. 406.

20. For more about Thomas More has fanatic see Marius and Ridley, Jasper, The Statesman and the Fanatic, Constable, London, 1982.

Pierre Cloutier

A Note on Thomas More's
History of Richard III and Richard Marius' View of it

Thomas More (Left) Richard III (Right)

Introduction

But even if More’s interpretation was askew, the consistency of his portrait testifies to determined research, and willy-nilly he gives us a more satisfying and coherent image of Richard than the King’s many modern apologists have managed to create

…

The History of King Richard III, offers a consistent, detailed and plausible version of events, one not published in his lifetime and consequently less open to the charge of malice that More’s accusers have made. In its general outline, More’s story also enjoys the advantage of agreeing substantially with much other evidence from the time1

 Thus does Richard Marius, More’s best modern biographer, also with one exception2 the biographer least enamored with the legend of Thomas More,3 accept the “black legend” about Richard III. Like so many writers who seem to have a need to accept this vision of Richard III he seems blind to the obvious problems with More’s account.

Marius’ Reasons

Marius’s reasons for accepting the basic truth of More’s account can be briefly summarized:

1, More did a great deal of detailed research.

2, One of More’s sources could have been John Howard, Duke of Norfolk and or his son Thomas Howard.

3, Any distortions or errors in the account of the murder of the Princes in the tower may have been the result of one or both of the Howards trying to cover up their part in the murders.

4, Henry VII would not have invaded England unless the Princes were dead otherwise his invasion would only have served to possibly restore Edward V to the throne.

5, Tyrell, the probable, murderer may have been ambitious and in pursuit of his own ends have murdered the Princes upon Richard’s order, and then informed Henry VII, that this obstacle to him, Henry VII, becoming King of England had been removed. In fact Tyrell may have claimed he did it for Henry.

6, Tyrell may have confessed for the good of his soul in 1502 and Henry VII, given the favour he had shown both Tyrell and the Howards would have suppressed the confession because it would have been obvious that he approved of both doer and deed.

7, More hated Henry VII and would not write a white-wash of Henry VII or be a Tudor propagandist.

8, The discovery of the bones of two children buried in a box beneath a stairway in 1674 is a confirmation of More’s story along with a medical analysis of the bones done in 1933 that confirms that the bones were of the right age.

9, More’s account was not published and in fact its publication would have gotten More into serious trouble, hence once again enhancing the veracity of the account.

10, Richard’s character has described by More is consistent and believable and hence probable and true.4

That is it!

Problems with Marius' Reasoning

The problems with the above are legion the following points should be kept in mind.

1, The bones that are continually trotted out has evidence of Richard’s guilt were not found where More said they were buried. In his account More states that the bones were buried under a stairway and then moved to another spot. The stairway may postdate the reign of Henry VII. The circumstances of the finding of the bones in 1674 were far from ideal which creates problems over what was the actual find. The dating of the age of the bones in 1933 is far from conclusive and likely wrong. Finally other bones of children have been found in the tower including two bodies found in a sealed room in the reign of James I.5

2, In Tyrell’s alleged confession he identifies the men who assisted him as Miles Forest and John Dighton who smothered the children. It appears that when More wrote his account Forest was dead but that Dighton was still alive. In fact according to More’s account he was still free and traveling around the country more than a decade after Tyrell’s confession. This is to put it mildly very hard to believe. We are asked to believe that a man who is accused by a deathbed, sworn confession of involvement in regicide and the murder of then Queen Elizabeth’s two brothers was allowed to stay free and unpunished. (Note: After Bosworth field Henry VII cemented his claim to the throne by marrying the York heiress, Elizabeth, sister of Edward V.) This is hard to swallow.6 The pertinent quote is as follows:

For first to beginne with the ministers, Miles Forest at sainct Martens pecemele rotted away. Dighton in ded walketh on a liue in good possibilitie to bee hanged ere he dye.7

3, Henry VII was claiming the throne and already planing to invade England and marry Elizabeth, Edward V's sister before the Princes were allegedly murdered. So it appears that the continued existence of the two Princes was not a complete bar in Henry’s mind to invading England.8

4, Regarding More’s hatred of Henry VII. This is obviously true from More’s writings yet tells us little about the reliability of More’s account; because regardless of More’s attitude to Henry VII he did not doubt the legitimacy of the Tudor claim to the throne of England. To present a positive account of Richard the Third, especially in relation to the “murder” of the Princes in the tower would have been to cast doubt on the Tudor claim to the throne, i.e., the claim of Henry VIII, More’s sometime patron to rule.9

5, Did More do detailed research? Since he failed to find a copy of the Titus Reglius that ruled Edward IV’s children illegitimate on grounds of a pre-existing valid pre-contract for marriage with another woman named Eleanor Butler, this is doubtful. The “research” is little more than an assertion. The claim his source may have been one or both of the Howards is little more than sheer speculation and proves nothing one way or another. We don’t know if the Howards were or were not one of More’s sources.10

6, Speculation of why Tyrell may have murdered the Princes i.e., that he may have told Henry VII for various reasons, for example Tyrell may have told Henry VII he killed them for him. That Tyrell may have confessed for the good of his soul. All this is once again sheer speculation. The fact is we do not have the “confession”. More admits he never saw it only that sources, unnamed, told him the contents. Vergil’s History of England, which contains a laudatory account of Henry VII and blames Richard III and Tyrell for the Princes death does not mention such a confession. Neither does the death sentence against Tyrell.11

7, The fact that More did not publish the manuscript in his lifetime adds nothing to the question of the veracity of his account of the life Richard III. This is an especially weak argument amounting once again to speculation. It is also possible that More did not publish it because he decided that his account was dubious. As it is this the failure to publish proves nothing. As for the idea it would have gotten More into serious trouble this is again speculation.

8, More’ delineation of Richard’s character shows a striking consistency, and it seems dubious that he manufactured this coherence out of whole cloth.12

Henry VII

The “consistency” of character that More gives Richard III along with the believability of that character prove nothing. Marius seems to be unaware that this may prove nothing but that More was a convincing writer. Also given his errors about Richard’s physical appearance why would More’s description of Richard’s character be any more accurate? The Historian Tacitus created a brilliant image of the Emperor Tiberius that the majority of modern historians believe is wrong. Consistency proves little one way or the other and like many other Historians he ignores the positive image in some contemporary chronicles about Richard III.13

More’s view of Richard’s character; it is a portrait of a dyed in the wool hypocrite, liar and dissembler. It is certainly consistent for what it is a one dimensional villain, not a human being. Neither Marius nor More seems to be worried about the contrast between Richard’s behavior before and after becoming King. Like Tacitus More seems to think that Richard, (like Tiberius), was hiding his real character all along.14

Its of interest that More for all of his so called research has praised by Marius manages to give Richard III a hunchback and a withered arm both of which are false.15

Other Problems

Marius repeatedly makes assertions instead of arguments with little or no evidence. For example his faith in More’s research and the reliability of More’s unnamed sources is curious given that More describes Richard III has a crippled hunchback which is manifestly false.16

Another serious mistake is Marius’ treatment of the whole precontract issue:

Elizabeth Lucy had a child by Edward IV. Edward’s mother, the dowager Duchess of York, was furious with him for marrying Elizabeth Woodville and claimed, so More says, that the marriage was invalid because Edward had promised to marry Elizabeth Lucy. Elizabeth Lucy was thereupon interrogated by a panel of judges and asked if the charge was true. Under oath she said that the king had never made such a promise explicitly.

"Howbeit, she said his grace spoke so loving words unto her that she verily hoped he would have married her, and if it had not been for such kind words she would never have showed such kindness to him to let him so kindly get her with child." (a quote from More)

More’s point was not mere comedy; it was to show that the charge had been made and refuted long before Richard and his cohorts brought it up. Yet the story does let him mock a foolish women.

Richard and Buckingham in some accounts accused Edward IV of making a marriage contract with one Eleanor Butler. More does not mention her but gives instead the humorous story of Elizabeth Lucy, who hoped that the king might wed her if she permitted him to bed her.17

This is really sloppy to put it mildly. Contemporary sources including the Titus Reglius, (Henry VII made great efforts to destroy every copy he could get his hands on), which was the legal basis for Richard III’s denial of his nephew’s right to the throne, only mention a precontract with Eleanor Butler. Elizabeth Lucy’s precontract claim is not known to any contemporary source. Since Eleanor Butler was of the nobility the claim of a precontract may have been valid whereas a precontract with Elizabeth Lucy an alleged whore would be ridiculous to More. Since More did not find out, apparently, about Eleanor Butler one wonders about the depth of More’s research. Marius seems to love a good story. It seems that, despite Marius comment, the alleged pre-contract was with Eleanor Butler not Elizabeth Lucy. It appears that More is simply repeating Tudor propaganda that replaced the respectable Eleanor Butler with the absurd Elizabeth Lucy. Marius second comment about “some accounts” refer to Eleanor Butler ignores the official document that excluded Edward IV children from the throne, (the Titus Reglius) only mentions Eleanor Butler. To quote it:

[A]t the time of … the same pretensed Mariage, and before and longe tyme after, the sed King Edward was and stode maryed and trouth plight to oone Dame Eleanor Butteler, Daughter of the old Earl of Shrewsbury, with whom the same King Edward had made a precontracte of Matrimonie, longe tyme before he made the said pretensed Mariage with the said Elizabeth Grey…18

The fact that this document was suppressed combined with the appearance of the Elizabeth Lucy story, which is only known from More would seem to indicate Tudor propaganda not truth.19

Regarding the repeated speeches that More put into his History of King Richard III, Marius states:

Obviously, too, the long speeches in the work were composed by More for rhetorical effect. He was following a tradition as old as Thucydides, allowing historians to put words to fit the occasion into the mouth of leading characters.20

Marius should then of course examine the very extensive literature about the reliability of those speeches. He would of course find out that those speeches are not reliable instead what people say in those speeches is what the author considered appropriate for those occasions. They tell us next to nothing about what was said and about the person in whose mouth the words are put, but it tells us an enormous amount about what the author believed and felt was appropriate. In those speeches the person uttering the speech is nothing more than a mouth piece for the author. So the speeches given to Richard III tell us nothing about Richard III but tell us a great deal about Thomas More and what he thought about Richard III.21

Instead we have the following bit of nonsense from Marius:

We should recall that he had had occasion to talk to a great many eyewitnesses of the events he reports and the underlying substance of the long speeches may be accurate. This is especially true of Buckingham’s speech in the Guildhall.22

It is of interest that Marius accepts wholly the idea that the Hastings “conspiracy” was a complete invention. Marius thus accepts the tradition of the falseness of the charge. Unfortunately the evidence is frankly entirely consistent with the charge of conspiracy being for real. Certainly the Richard treated the other alleged conspirators quite leniently. Not in keeping with his image of vicious ruthlessness.23

Then Marius’ critical faculties vanish entirely he says:

..the force and animadversions against sexual offences is striking. His attacks on his mother’s morals are more than striking they are shocking. He claimed that both Edward IV and George, duke of Clarence, Richard’s older brothers, were not sons of his father.24

Marius attempt to defend this absurd piece of idiocy by citing various people who allege that Richard’s mother supposedly said something similar. Marius then brings up the case of Isabeau of Bavaria in 1420 C.E., at the signing of the Treaty of Troyes of claiming that Charles VII was not Charles VI’s son but the son of one of her lovers; in this case Charles' brother Louis. The problem with that story is that it is a myth. Isabeau never did that and never denied Charles VII was Charles VI’s son.25

Marius’ further account that Joan of Arc restored Charles VII’s faith in his legitimacy is a nice hoary myth with no foundation and dates well after Charles VII’s lifetime.26

Marius then accepts has genuine all the out bursts of Richard III against sexual license. Marius thus completely abdicates from being a historian just why should we accept this view of Richard anymore than the withered arm or hunchback?

But Marius is in full throttle so he says, to repeat the quote used at the beginning:

But even if More’s interpretation is askew, the consistency of his portrait testifies to determined research, and willy-nilly he gives us a more satisfying and coherent image of Richard than the king’s many modern apologists have managed to create.27

If Marius wants to be take seriously the absurd one dimensional caricature that More gives us and to take More’s alleged detailed research seriously Marius is perfectly entitled to do so; but I for one cannot take Marius on Richard III seriously.

Marius then discusses the murder of the two princes in the tower.28 After going through the principal objections by Historians like Kendal he reluctantly admits that the Tyrell's confession is dubious in the extreme. Although Marius avoids the problem of one of the alleged regicides wondering around England well after the murder after Tyrell’s alleged confession! Marius then makes a whole series of fanciful speculations to rescue the story. I.E., Tyrell sent Henry word that the princes were dead and Henry covered up the confession because it would indicate that he and Tyrell were tainted by the crime. This is all fantasy on par with the most extreme Richardian’s about the death of the two princes in the tower.

The Two Princes Edward V and Richard Duke of York

Marius over and over again talks about the consistency of More’s version of Richard III’s character. Ignoring quite deliberately the historical record. The contrast between what the record shows us concerning Richard III’s character before his taking the throne and after is not consistent with the dyed in the wool one dimensional villain of More’s fantasy. Other interpretations of Richard III are possible and Marius by very consistently ignoring this evidence supports the cartoon of legend.

In the end Richard III remains an enigma, probably no more ruthless than other Kings at his time, but still the disappearance of the two Princes in the tower remains very strange. It remains very mysterious just how and why and stranger still if Richard III ordered them murdered why do they disappear into “night and fog”, why was no cover story concocted? In the past English Kings and others had been murdered and such stories created yet in this case the Princes just vanish. It all very hard to understand. It is of course also strange that Henry VII although married to Elizabeth never seems to have made any sort of search for Elizabeth's two brothers bodies or made any effort to find out what had happened to them. The result is a mystery that will probably never be solved. However it remains that Richard III is the most likely culprit for murdering the Princes.

1. Marius, Thomas More, Fount Paperbacks, London, 1984, p. 110, 112. For More’s book see, More, Thomas, The History of King Richard III, Here

2. Ridley, Jasper, The Statesman and the Fanatic, Constable , London,1982.

3. For example the play A Man for all Seasons.

4. Marius, Ch. 7 pp. 98-122.

5. Fields, Bertram, Royal Blood, HarperCollins, New York, 1998, pp.238-257.

6. This has not stopped many writers like Alice Weir, The Princes in the Tower, Ballantine Books, New York, 1995, and Seward, Desmond, Richard III: England's Black Legend, Franklin Watts, London, 1984. Kendal, Richard the Third, Garden City, New York, 1965. See Fields, pp. 230-237.

7. From More, Here.

8. Fields, pp. 133-134.

9. The Tudor claim to the throne was, to put it mildly, dubious, and there were in fact many better claimants in terms of legitimacy. These individuals had a tendency to be executed by Henry VII + Henry VIII. See Fields, pp. 151-153, 197-198.

10. See Fields, pp. 84-87, 97-98, Marius, p. 112.

11. Tyrell was accused of treason against Henry VII the princes were not mentioned. See Fields, pp. 230-237.

12. Marius, p. 109.

13. See Fields, pp. 258-270, and Tacitius, The Annals of Imperial Rome, Penguin Books, London, 1976.

14. IBID, Tacitus, Introduction, pp. 16-22.

15. Fields, pp. 277-278.

16. Fields, pp. 92-93, 277-285.

17. Marius, p. 107, 108, for More’s version see, Here

18. Fields, p. 287.

19. See Fields, pp. 162-163, 285-287.

20. Marius, p. 108.

21. Finley, Ancient History, Chatto & Windus, London, 1985, pp. 12-15.

22. Marius, p. 108 see More, Here

23. Fields, pp. 88-93.

24. Marius, p. 109 see More, Here for examples.

25. Warner, Marina, Joan of Arc, Penguin Books, London, 1981, pp. 58-59, Gibbons, Rachel, Isabeau of Bavaria, Queen of France (1385-1422): The Creation of an Historical Villainess, Transactions of the Royal Historical Society, 6th Ser., Vol. 6, pp. 51-73. 1996. In fact Isabella’s lawyers deprived Charles VII of the crown on the grounds of his involvement in the various crimes, especially the murder of Jean Duke of Burgundy. There was not a breath of talk of Charles VII being illegitimate. Henry V deliberately spread this rumour.

26. Warner, 56-60.

27. Marius, p. 110.

28. Marius, pp. 112-115.

Pierre Cloutier